New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

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ccprince
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New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby ccprince » Sat Apr 27, 2024 10:31 pm

Hey, gang -- the latest revision of the OPR rules came out a few days ago. There are some big changes. There might be more than this, but there are two really important ones:

Morale/Stunned

The way morale checks are triggered hasn't changed, but the behavior of a Stunned unit has. Before, the only thing a Stunned unit could do is spend an entire activation to recover. In the new rules, spending an activation to remove the Stunned status is still an option.

But, until you do that, Stunned units:
  • Are at -1 to Quality and Defense rolls
  • Halve their movement
  • Cannot hold objectives

So, a low-quality unit is still in pretty big trouble when Stunned, but higher-quality units might still be able to do something.

Point costs for many units have gone down a little bit (5 points?) as a result, so you might be able to squeeze another unit into your list.

Assault

This is the really big one. Lemme just quote it:

When declaring a Charge action, units may choose to assault, allowing them to shoot before moving. When assaulting, units get -1 to hit when shooting and strking, and halve their move.


That "shoot AND move in the same activation" thing will be a really interesting change. Sure, my Robot Legions probably won't take too much advantage of that, what with being Slow, but still.

Also note that it's specifically attached to the Charge action, which means the sequence has to be:

[list=]
[*] Shoot at the -1 penalty
[*] Move up to half your movement
[*] End in base contact with an enemy unit
[^] Melee at the -1 penalty
[/list]

If you just want to shoot, and then move, that's not an option. The "Advance" order is still "move first, then shoot."

Blast clarification

This is really just a rules clarification, but I think they've FINALLY got an unambiguous wording of the Blast rule:

Blast{X}

Ignores cover, and after resolving other special rules, each hit is multiplied by X, where X is max. as many hits as models in the target unit.

Example: A weapon with 2 Attacks and Blast{3} scores two hits against a unit with two models. Each hit is multiplied by 2, so the target takes a total of 4 hits.


Ultimately, this is a pretty small revision, but since it's one of things that has continued to frustrate me -- I keep thinking I understand the rule, and then I find I don't -- I'm glad to have it cleared up.

(Jon, feel free to cue up an "I told you so," since I'm pretty sure this is the way you've been interpreting the rule. :-) )

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Eilif
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Re: New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby Eilif » Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:06 pm

Interesting.

I think the assault rule will be pretty terrifying for high quality units assaulting from Vehicles. Imagine a trio of Terminators jumping out of a land raider and still having a 50 percent chance of hitting you with 9 storm bolter and 9 power fist attacks. And that's before you consider the likely attached character.
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ccprince
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Re: New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby ccprince » Sun Apr 28, 2024 8:12 pm

Yeah, the high-quality units get pretty terrifying. I don't think I'm going to get much use out of it. My high-quality units either don't have a lot of attacks, or they're Slow, so that half-movement thing really sucks. I mean, with a max move of 4 inches on an Assault, I'm really just close enough to club you with my guns, anyway. :-D

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Eilif
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Re: New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby Eilif » Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:01 pm

ccprince wrote:Yeah, the high-quality units get pretty terrifying. I don't think I'm going to get much use out of it. My high-quality units either don't have a lot of attacks, or they're Slow, so that half-movement thing really sucks. I mean, with a max move of 4 inches on an Assault, I'm really just close enough to club you with my guns, anyway. :-D


I don't know dude, you've got access to a couple good "Transport(11)" options. Drive close and get those shamblers into action!
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JamesWrecks
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Re: New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby JamesWrecks » Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:00 am

Stunned is great. Would've been nice for my Deff Dread/Ork Walkers last time. But not much to say about it. I'd rather be functional and stunned and use my turn 4 action to clear Stunned instead of being idle to just get stunned again the entire game.

===

Assault is really only good for units with -12" ranged weapons and with melee options.

You paid for the points for both, but at that range you only get to pick range or melee to fight once a turn, effectively making the points spent less effective.

With the new rules, check out the Prime Assault Brother. Equip a Flamer Pistol. Be within 6" departing from a transport.

Blood Assault Squad [5] - 190pts

Qua 3+ Def 2+
4x Heavy CCWs (A2, AP(1))
4x Heavy Pistols (12", A1, AP(1))
1x Flamer Pistol (6", A1, Blast(3), Reliable)
1x Energy Fist (A2, AP(4))

Just shooting, you're hitting 3 times on average.
Just melee, you're hitting 6-7 times on average.
With assault, you're hitting roughly 11.5 times on average even with the penalty and the Flamer Pistol.

I went through the other official armies, and you're trading less hits for more utility (Elite Snatchers from the Soul-Snatcher Cult as comparison), so having a more lethal unit at those specific ranges is very cool.

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Mattias!
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Re: New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby Mattias! » Tue Apr 30, 2024 12:47 pm

JamesWrecks wrote:Blood Assault Squad [5] - 190pts

Qua 3+ Def 2+
4x Heavy CCWs (A2, AP(1))
4x Heavy Pistols (12", A1, AP(1))
1x Flamer Pistol (6", A1, Blast(3), Reliable)
1x Energy Fist (A2, AP(4))

Just shooting, you're hitting 3 times on average.
Just melee, you're hitting 6-7 times on average.
With assault, you're hitting roughly 11.5 times on average even with the penalty and the Flamer Pistol.

I went through the other official armies, and you're trading less hits for more utility (Elite Snatchers from the Soul-Snatcher Cult as comparison), so having a more lethal unit at those specific ranges is very cool.


Definitely makes assault focused units more deadly. It will certainly make me think twice before getting too close to certain units, and careful about screening out enemy transports with assault payloads.

But the -1Q for both shooting and melee when on assault is pretty punishing for low Q units like my feudal guard.

Feudal Guardsmen Combined Unit [10]
Qua 5+, Def 4+
10 x Rifles (24", A1)
10 x Bayonets (A1, AP(1))

Just shooting, you're hitting 3-4 times on average,
Just melee, you're hitting 3-4 times on average,
With Assault, you're hitting 3-4 times on average--but potentially exposing yourself to the crackback. So this option for a lower quality unit is much more situational.

Now, it gets a bit more interesting when you consider the officer buffs. Right now, I run all my units with an officer that has Strategist (+1 to hit when shooting for the unit). That means:
Just shooting: avg. 5 hits
Just melee: avg. 3-4 hits
Assault: avg. 5 hits
So situationally useful again - if you have an armored foe, might be better to assault for an extra hit or two with an AP value, but you have to weight that against attack back.

But a different buff that I've never run is Brawler, where the officer instead confers Furious on the unit (i.e., when charging, sixes count as two hits instead of one). Since you need sixes to hit anyway when assaulting, maybe it's a better one to take for units that you plan to put on the front:
Just shooting: avg. 3-4
Just melee: avg. 3-4 hits +1-2 extra hits from furious
Assault: avg. 3-4 hits +1-2 extra hits from furious

This may not look all that interesting, since the hits come out about the same to the unit with Strategist; however, when you consider that Brawler is only 10 points where Strategist is 50, it starts to look like a decent option. It may be worth taking on units that I intend to get in close without standing around shooting first--a unit in a heavy APC for instance.

Bottom line for this kind of unit seems to be that in the right situation, assault could be a viable move: against a unit that has already fought; or against a unit that you would rather try to rout in close combat instead of just stun with shooting. It's an interesting tactical consideration and I think I'm glad of the option.

I'm a lot more scared of terminators now though :lol:

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Jackswift
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Re: New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby Jackswift » Wed May 01, 2024 12:27 pm

Interesting stuff to try. Assault might make my Sisters Seraphim units with flamers more viable again. They've been pretty useless the last few times I've run them.

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JamesWrecks
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Re: New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby JamesWrecks » Sun May 05, 2024 12:23 pm

Feudal Guardsmen Combined Unit [10]
Qua 5+, Def 4+
10 x Rifles (24", A1)
10 x Bayonets (A1, AP(1))

Just shooting, you're hitting 3-4 times on average,
Just melee, you're hitting 3-4 times on average,
With Assault, you're hitting 3-4 times on average--but potentially exposing yourself to the crackback. So this option for a lower quality unit is much more situational.


The melee option and assault achieve the same thing with the effective same number of hits. (Which is to get within 3" of an objective.)

So, the two type of units I see abusing Assault would be:
Something that already hits on +6, so the penalty doesn't matter. (Most low quality units that are already Shaken.)
A unit that has a between 6-12" shooting, and either A2 attacks on the gun or melee. Even better with Flamers with "Reliable" or just High Quality. (Assault Brothers, Ork Mob, Custodians, etc.)

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Mattias!
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Re: New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby Mattias! » Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:23 am

Reviving this thread for a different question on these rules. I had always assumed LOS was strictly from the model's viewpoint, but I noticed this line just now (which I think changed slightly with the recent update):

Screenshot 2024-07-18 085536.png


This seems to indicate that "the perimeter of other units (friendly or enemy)" is considered LOS-blocking.

This reddit thread seems to agree: https://www.reddit.com/r/onepagerules/c ... cking_los/

I like this interpretation in the abstract because it makes positioning really important, and potentially reduces the effectiveness of some of the more powerful guns.

But should there be limits? Should a unit of infantry be able to screen LOS to a big tank or tall walker that's behind them?

I don't think so, personally. As someone who tends to run a lot of infantry and some big walkers, it would feel a bit cheesy to me if a line of little quar could effectively LOS-block a pair of dreadnoughts. But on the other hand, maybe that's balanced by the fact that the dreadnoughts and tank also wouldn't be able to shoot through the screening unit? Should "unit perimeter" be limited to the height of the models in the unit as well?

What do y'all think?

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Eilif
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Re: New OPR rules released (version 3.3)

Postby Eilif » Thu Jul 18, 2024 4:34 pm

I think we've played pretty consistently that other units of infantry block the line-of-sight of units of infantry regardless of friend or foe.

However, I think we've generally played that a larger vehicle can see over a unit of infantry and can be seen over a unit of infantry. It does appear that Rules As Written (RAW) would prevent this, but I think we've done fine with our own unspoken house rule.

I'm ok with varying sizes of infantry (from Haflings to terminators) blocking line of sight as intervening units. As justifications, infantry can crouch, so a taller unit isn't necessarily taller, the nearest infantry to you is generally going to be the threat to be dealt with first, and one wouldn't want to risk shooting through slightly shorter friendly infantry.

Also, RAW is less necesary as I tend to setup tables with more-than average cover, lots of infantry sized scatter terrain and I treat forest as line-of-sight blocking to units completely on either side. I think letting big things see over small things is less consequential when there are plenty of places to hide and plenty of things blocking line of sight.

Lastly, one scenario exception might be a last-stand situation where a disciplined force could be tightly packed and allowed to shoot through friendly units when they are in direct contact with each other.
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